This is an audio transcript of the Life and Art from FT Weekend podcast episode: Design series — Jonathan Adler on making your home your own
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos and this is the second episode of our special series on design.
How do we elevate the design of our homes to make them feel more like us? How do we find our sense of style when it comes to the things we surround ourselves with? These are questions that potter and designer Jonathan Adler has been answering for a long time. Jonathan’s introduction to design was through pottery. He was 12 years old at summer camp when he learned to work with clay, and since then he hasn’t stopped. He has developed a ceramics business. Opened his first store in 1998 and it has grown into a home decor empire. He now has stores all over the US and London, and his designs spanned from furniture to rugs to pillows to accessories and of course, always pottery. He’s with me today, Jonathan, hi, welcome to the show.
Jonathan Adler
Hello. It is great to be here.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So before we get into your story, I would love to give people who’ve never been to your stores a sense of your style. I’ve heard you describe your taste as modern American glamour. You’ve also used happy chic. What do those descriptions mean to you?
Jonathan Adler
I hope that if somebody comes into my store, they see an eccentric vision of an individual. As for my style, yeah, I would say modern American glamour if I were to put it into a pithy three-word phrase as one is supposed to do in these brand-obsessed days.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Truly.
Jonathan Adler
Modern to me means that I strive to make design that is new and original, and I’m definitely a modernist in my orientation in the sense that I’m kind of a minimalist in a funny way. I am American, obviously, and I think that the optimism of America comes through in my oeuvre, I hope. Whether that’s through color or through subject matter or just that sense of abundance, I think is uniquely American. And glamour is the hardest of the three-word brand description, because glamour is one of those words that no one really knows what it means.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. That’s true.
Jonathan Adler
Yeah, it’s sort of a Rorschach test, but to me, glamour means being memorable. It means being confident and a little bit shiny and having swagger. So, yeah, modern American glamor. C’est moi.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Amazing. I’m going to attempt to describe your work a little bit, too, and you can tell me what you think, but it feels to me like it’s some combination of, playfulness, but still this polished aesthetic that it all sort of fits into. Like, you have these bright colors combined with creams and cherry-shaped like hands that can hold you up, and cookie jars that say ganja or calories on them instead of cookies. We bought my sister your Georgia lamp, which is a white porcelain vase that looks like it may have bubbles or dollops on it. And you look closer and it’s just breasts. It’s just boobs. It’s surrounded by boobs.
Jonathan Adler
Yes it is. It is covered by breasts, this is. And I think as for the playfulness, I think playfulness was a really strange and interesting concept in design. I never want my work to feel juvenile or overly playful, so I think that I strive to create design that is unimpeachably chic, elegant, made of perfect materials, timeless. And if there’s a whisper of playfulness, then I think I’ve earned it by creating a foundation of chic and elegance if that makes any sense at all.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I think so, it’s interesting that within the design world, there’s a weight to these words. And, outside of it, a lot of us don’t know what words mean what?
Jonathan Adler
Yeah, well, I’ll tell you an anecdote that’s kind of germane. My adorable husband, Simon Doonan, once interviewed Hardy Amies, who was the Queen’s couturier. And, you know, the Queen used to wear sort of primrose yellow suits with matching hats and a matching bag. It was not terribly chic. And Simon said to Hardy Amies, why didn’t you make the Queen’s outfits more chic and Hardy Amies replied disdainfully, my dear, there is an unkindness to chic. The Queen must always appear friendly. And I, when he sort of told me that anecdote, I thought long and hard about it because it’s true. Chic has a snobism to it, and as an American, I’m very anti snob. I came from a crappy farm town. I’m anything but a snob, but I’m also a very serious designer, and so balancing the elegance and quality of chic with a slightly more friendly tone is kind of my life’s work.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
Why don’t we go back? I understand that your early introduction to design was through pottery. And we know this. You were introduced to it at summer camp. Can you tell me sort of what you loved about it originally, and then, like, what opened up to you over time as you kept doing it?
Jonathan Adler
People love pottery. It’s a primordial, very primitive relationship. And I just fell in love with clay. I knew it had to be my jam. I, you know, went to a fancy college, right?
Lilah Raptopoulos
You went to Brown.
Jonathan Adler
And I never thought I could be a potter. I thought that, you know, I would never make a living. Which is a reasonable assumption. And I anticipated a life in which my weekends were spent hawking my wares at rain-soaked craft fairs. And I don’t know. Bit by bit, I got some orders. I made some pots. I started with nothing. I had no business plan, I had no money, and I just figured it out over time. And I think my challenge over the years has been how to maintain that feeling of outsider-ness while becoming very much an insider. You know, because the outsider-ness is what gives my work an authentic POV and as I have built a business, I’ve become more of an insider. You know, the challenge is how to maintain that voice, that quirkiness that, I hope, singular personality.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I like that you say that, our relationship with pottery is primal. I’m curious about, like, also the home, like what it is about designing objects for the home that appeals to you, or like creating environments in the home. Like, why the home? It also feels like, maybe primal isn’t the right word, but it feels like, foundational.
Jonathan Adler
It definitely is foundational. And I’m like restless, frustrated, and irate. And I’m always looking around and just being like, how could this be better? And that really is what has driven me from being a potter to being whatever the hell I am these days, a designer of everything. Because, you know, I just sort of look at every vista and vignette and I’m eternally dissatisfied, thinking, how could that be better? How could my, I mean, my house right now, and I just think, how could that view be better? What is missing from the area I’m looking at even as we speak. So I’m constantly sort of recomposing and reimagining what could be rather than what is. And you know, I, I hope that I suffer for the pleasure of others.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
I would love to explore with you how listeners can find their own sense of style, how to make their home feel like when they walk in, like it’s really recognisable and singular and sort of like it can only be theirs. I find that your work, like, when I see it, I know that it’s yours. I’m curious if you have any initial thoughts about how someone could figure out what’s them.
Jonathan Adler
First and foremost, you need to be willing to put in the effort and to not get overly frustrated and to not hate yourself. Because honestly, designing is redesigning in the same way writing is rewriting. And I think the real challenge is like often you’ll do something, you’ll make a try, it’ll suck, you’ll hate yourself and you won’t be willing to take the time to think. All right, I screwed this up but what could I have done. How could I make it better? Like how can I fix the problem and so people . . .
Lilah Raptopoulos
Feel like the wrong paint color, or the wrong, buying the wrong couch?
Jonathan Adler
Yeah. And so you might just have to repaint. You don’t have to figure out how to just throw a schmata over the sofa that might solve the problem. You know, it’s not like you screwed up once, and so you suck and it’s all over and you have to give up. It sounds frivolous to talk about design, but there in some ways, it really is a metaphor for so many different creative endeavors and life endeavors, oddly. So, you know, that sort of need to be resilient and to try and roll up your sleeves and make it work. Now as for as for how to start, I think that whatever your style is, the foundation of your home and of your space needs to be free of style in the sense that you need to decide on furniture plan, proportion and function. So those are sort of those same issues could be addressed whether you are a minimalist, a maximalist, whether you like gray or fuchsia. It’s still about furniture plan proportion and function.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Right.
Jonathan Adler
Then you can start to think about how those elements, the big pieces in the room, let’s say rug, sofa, layout, lighting. Then you can start to inject personality. I’m a varsity player. So I’m like aggressively eclectic and I’m sort of a visual thrill seeker. But there’s ways to be a JV player and still have a really functional and personal space.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I should say, when we’re talking about JV and varsity, these are very American sports terms, like high school sports teams for junior varsity and varsity. So the sort of like, almost their version versus the pro is kind of, is kind of the analogy.
Jonathan Adler
Yeah. I think if you’re in England, you would definitely not know what junior varsity or varsity are. But yeah, it’s sort of like the, Championship versus the Premier League.
Lilah Raptopoulos
So what would be an example of a varsity decision versus a JV decision?
Jonathan Adler
Bro, I’m in my sunroom and it’s like a room surrounded by different double doors. And we have a sofa against windows with a painting hung over the door frame.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Oh wow.
Jonathan Adler
On the windows, because we don’t use that door. So it sort of signifies you can’t use it. And there is a gigantic red fibre ball made by a noteworthy fibre artist from the 70s called Claire Zeisler, juxtaposed with an Italian goatskin bar cabinet and a sculpture of Michael Jackson that we bought at the flea market for $10. Just because they kind of all work proportionally. And it’s a freaky scene, but it satisfies me and my eye. And as I said, my husband Simon.
Lilah Raptopoulos
And then what would a JV version of that be, say, like, we know where our furniture goes. We’ve got a couple nice rugs, but we don’t have, we haven’t hung a lot on our walls yet. We haven’t painted our walls. Or how would you start to inject some personality?
Jonathan Adler
I guess I would start small. I think that’s the safe way to play it, so, things, this is this is a pretty banal answer, but it’s kind of true. Throw pillows or place to inject personality. Smaller items. I think also the JV move is to create a very neutral foundation. So whether that’s white walls, neutrally toned furniture and rugs and that kind of thing, and then introduce elements of color and personality with accessories.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. You know, I read you said something like, so many people shy away from using colour in their homes for fear of getting it wrong. But ignorance and fear are no reason to live in a bland box. I really appreciated that. Beige is a bummer, you said. How, how do people build the confidence to paint their wall, that colour green that I see behind you?
Jonathan Adler
Start small. Train the eye. Become kind of surreal. It’s not a talent. It’s a skill. Something one can easily learn. And you should sort of dispel the notion that there are some gifted professionals and that you’re just a rank amateur. The old Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours paradigm holds true in design, as in so many other pursuits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
The last question I want to ask you about our homes is, I’m going to paraphrase you because I don’t remember exactly what you said, but you said something that stuck with me, which is basically that part of what interior design is, is to be a psychologist sort of, for the person that you’re helping figure out their home and kind of figuring out who they are almost better than they know themselves, and pushing them to be a little bit bolder, a little bit more themselves, that sort of thing. Did I get that right?
Jonathan Adler
Yeah. You did. I should say that in addition to being a potter, designer, etc, I also am an interior designer working with clients, and I love it because it’s sort of like being a sleuth. I kind of Miss Marple my way into people’s personalities. I like to say I’m like a slimming mirror for my clients. I try to create spaces that reflect them at their thinnest and most glamorous. So you need to understand who they are in a way that the client might not even understand themselves.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I wonder if there’s something in that for the rest of us. Like, is there something in the idea that our homes can be not the more sort of conservative versions of ourselves, but actually the bolder versions of our personalities?
Jonathan Adler
Yeah, in the world of branding that has emerged, people are often advised to come up with the three-word brand descriptions. I think it’s a good idea to try to do the same for yourself, like think about who you are and then think about how your house could reflect it. Like you, Lilah, you’re young and pretty.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Thank you.
Jonathan Adler
We’ll make that one word, young and pretty. I’m sure you are an intellectual because I’m a tremendous intellectual, and you and I are completely, existing on the same place. I think you’re young, pretty and intellectual. And then what else are you?
Lilah Raptopoulos
I mean, you said something about yourself that you were sort of, there’s, like, a touch of hedonism in you. I don’t know if there’s a touch of hedonism in me, but there’s something weird, something weird, that I find in my home.
Jonathan Adler
All right, I’m listening. I get the sense you ain’t basic. So your house should reflect that. But anyway, I get super Oprah-y sounding when I talk about design. I really don’t mean to, but it’s inevitable. Yeah. So it’s sort of a chance to think about who the hell you are and how that can be reflected. And sometimes it requires brutal honesty about yourself. I think in my case, in my case, I have kind of a funny and ironic, perplexing reflection in that I’m white, but I have to thank my husband. Thank you for the cup of tea, darling. I am quite ascetic in my life. You know, even though I’m a potter, which you would imagine, potters would constantly like taking mushrooms and smoking pot all day. I’m very clean living, disciplined and simple. And so, ironically, my house is really a funhouse mirror of who I am because my true life is quite ascetic. But my space, my house looks very louche and hedonistic. So, you know, by sort of taking stock of who you are. You might find that you want to project something that’s the exact opposite of who you are. Deep thoughts bro.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Well, I think even like the process, that process of figuring out, of using your home to ask yourself questions about yourself is fun.
Jonathan Adler
Well, it’s also really fun to come up with a three-word description for yourself and for your loved ones, and to use it as an opportunity for hostility.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Like a roast. Yes.
Jonathan Adler
My friends and Simon and I, we all sort of have played this game where we come up with the three words and sometimes it involves brutality, you know, sort of telling people who they are, not who they think they are. So that’s always fun.
Lilah Raptopoulos
That will haunt me. I’m going to think about what my words are now for the rest of the day.
Jonathan Adler
You should, and think about vicious ones as well.
Lilah Raptopoulos
My last question, Jonathan, is just, you know, big picture when it comes to living a good and satisfying and rewarding and kind of joyful life. Why does all of this matter?
Jonathan Adler
Well, don’t look to me for answers on living a good and satisfying, joyful life because my three words are not good, satisfying, and joyful. They’re probably more like restless, frustrated, and Kafkaesque.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Okay, so what about this? What about, what about when it comes to living a creative and rewarding life? Why does all of this matter?
Jonathan Adler
I think that it all comes back to glamour. I think that it matters because you want to be memorable to others, but you also want to be able to look back and think about what a memorable life you have led. You know, glamour is typically associated with something that’s frivolous, decadent, and not altruistic. But you know what? You might want to look back and realise that you’ve led a very pious life and that that’s what makes you memorable, or you’ve helped others, and that’s what makes you memorable, as long as you’ve done it with tremendous conviction. So I think the key is to do whatever you do, whether it’s altruism, hedonism or whatever it is. Just turn it up to 11.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Jonathan, this is an absolute delight. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Jonathan Adler
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure chatting with you. Think about your brand. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about myself.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, what a joy. Thank you.
Jonathan Adler
All right. Thank you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the show. Thank you for listening to the second episode of our special design series on Life and Art from FT Weekend. Take a read through the show notes. We have put some fun, relevant links in from our conversation with Jonathan and all our links that take you to the FT will get you past the paywall. Also in the show notes is a discount to a subscription to the Financial Times and ways to stay in touch with me on email and on Instagram. I read everything you send. I am Lilah Raptopoulos and here is my brilliant team. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer. Lulu Smyth is our producer. Zach St Louis is our contributing producer. Our sound engineers are Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco with original music by Metaphor Music. Topher Forheczs is our executive producer and our global head of audio is Cheryl Brumley. Have a lovely few days and we’ll find each other again on Friday.